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Discussion (61)¬

1. tokker says:

   August 21, 2009 at 2:40 am

   I think that hapa aptly points out that Obama seems to be for more government intervention in the economic life of the people. Right or left, intervention is intervention. Understand also that, at the time, Nazis were not considered right-leaning. The right at the time were monarchists while the left was communist. They were the “Third Option”. They were fiercly against the communists, but boy look at these capitolist policies excerpted from their 25-point policy:
   7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.

   11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

   12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

   13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

   14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

   15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

   16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

   17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

   18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

   20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

   21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

   22. We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.
2. tokker says:

   August 21, 2009 at 3:04 am

   Now, kuni, seeing as you are apparently Canadian, do you live in Canada? If so, what has your experience been with the Canadian health care system?

   Derry, I agree with happa, must break up those paragraphs. Once you and SAW settled down it was some good discussion. I really hate when people think Nader was the only independent. As you said, he wasn’t independent, he was a Green. We had a great Green candidate for governor a little while back where I live. I thought the Green candidates this last election for president sounded like idiots.

   When looking at a candidate, party affiliation isn’t worth much. Are you a Tax and Spend or Blue Dog Democrat? Are you a libertarian-leaning or NeoCon Republican? I remember the right-wing mess of Nixon, the left-wing mess of Stalin, and the center mess of Hitler.

   If you are in a country where nearly all of the elected officials at a national level are in one of two parties, the parties have to be the big umbrella parties that sweep up all sorts of nuts. A lot of the unpopular policies of the Obama administration and unpopular policies of the Bush administration are unpopular for the same reason. They are unpopular because they aren’t really about capitalism or communism or socialism, it’s about power. It is frustrating about how I see pundits screaming about how they are trying to drag the country in a liberal or conservative way when really they are just making a grab for power and disguising it in an ideological sheet to try to appease to the assumed role of their party. Worse, people are buying it.
3. tokker says:

   August 21, 2009 at 3:13 am

   One last thing. Happa, could you clarify for me the Islamic symbol? That is for Islam, right?
   Are you trying to say Obama is a Muslim?
   Is it that, that Muslims are connected to the Facists and Communists?
   Is it a reference to the “Islamic Facist” term that has been going around? (Some of the commentators I’ve heard use this I think were on the mark for the guys the subset of Muslums they described)
   Is it a reference to a specific state? Say, for example a third state that is essentially an oligarchy that wraps itself in the guise of a democracy such as Egypt or Iran?
4. kuniakiraka says:

   August 21, 2009 at 3:20 pm

   I live in Ontario. In either urban or suburban centers (in terms of population, this covers a large percentage of Canadians). Therefore my experience do not reflect the realities of Canadian Healthcare in the rural areas or those of he northern territories (geographicly huge.)

   I made some comments on this in the thread “Oh Canada”, because the video linked to that thread, I felt was misleading as to the true nature of Canadian healthcare.

   My personal experiences and those of my families have been all good.

   When I was twelve, I struck my head several times in various ways and circumstances. One of which lead to loss of conscoiusness and hospitalization (Let the jokes of being a crackhead begin!). I did have “rotating doctors”, but the nurses were constant and maintained continuity. (Doctors at the hospitals I have experiences with work as a team – covering for each other, checking on each other’s patients so they can have “down time”.)

   The entire extent of my hospital stay was focused upon my recovery. There was no talk about whether or not treatment would be covered or how we would have to pay for it.

   This I feel, is the best quality about Canadian Healthcare – The peace of mind in a stressful time. There were not insurance claims adjustors, no bureaucrats standing in the way of doctors and nurses doing what they have to. There’s no heartwretching decisions about what treatments the family can afford or whether or not the injured party can do without a particular treatment/ medicine.

   In terms of rationing, there’s a budget for each patient’s daily food supply – but it is a legal requirement that each patient receives the nutrition they need to make a full and speedy recovery according to Canada’s Food Guide.
   There is no rationing of medicines – that I know of.
   As long as a patient’s condition requires them to remain at the hospital (based upon the doctor’s diagnosis) they can do so – it is almost unheard of , where a patient is released by a doctor when they are clearly unfit to leave the hospital. Once a patient is deemed to have recovered sufficiently to leave a hospital, they can leave or they can stay. If they choose to stay, then they must pay for their hospital bed (daily- and the cost is quite steep.)

   When I first moved to Toronto, and before I found myself a “Family Doctor”, I made use of the walk-in clinic. Again, the focus was purely on my needs as a patient. There was no intrusive interview as to my eligibility for care, or whether or not i had the means to pay. They simply took my Social Insurance Number, so that my medical record can be properly updated and the services rendered can be properly charged to the Ontario Health Insurance Plan.

   This peace of mind would be akin to that felt by those who have sufficient medical Coverage in the US -except that I also have no worries about “pre-existing conditions” or having to take out a second mortgage to ensure the proper care.

   I’m not going to repeat my other comments on Canadian Health Care. You can read it here: http://comicstripclub.com/?p=190#comments
5. kuniakiraka says:

   August 21, 2009 at 3:27 pm

   It is true that there is a “wait time” problem. But all emergency/ urgent care is prompt. If you go to your family doctor, they’ll treat whatever you have. If you go to the Hospital, you will be queued based upon the urgancy of your condition and your time of arrival. The triage (initial assessment is fairly quick and cursory – some people don’t even realize that they have had one) determines the nature and urgency of your condition.

   So if you want someone to look after your superficial cut or order an elective blood test, you’re going to wait a while at the emergency room – or you can go to your family doctor.
6. howdyfromtexas says:

   August 21, 2009 at 7:24 pm

   Saw, thank you for teaching me the word ‘ratiocinate’
7. kuniakiraka says:

   August 21, 2009 at 8:57 pm

   Tokker: Are you insinuating that Fascist and Socialist policies differ only in their rationalization/ justifications? Is that the point you were trying to make with the Nazi’s 25-point policy?
8. SAWhowhatnow says:

   August 22, 2009 at 4:49 am

   Howdy, that post actually put a lot of new words in my vernacular. You learn something new every day, eh?
9. tokker says:

   August 22, 2009 at 5:33 am

   Nope, it is to show that the Fascists WERE Socialists (Socialisim was actually part of the full name of the Nazi party, while the term Fascist is Italian and comes from a slang term for a worker’s union). They both had the same rationalization / justification, which was a stated belief that this would benefit the common good. What their actual belief was depended on which Socialist or Fascist or Nazi
10. kuniakiraka says:

    August 24, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    Well then it looks like they took point #7 so seriously, that they (the Nazis) when about a full 180 on the political spectrum. Or was it Hilter and his Handler’s influence? i wonder…
11. carp tarp says:

    October 7, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    So how many people has the Obama regime killed ? It must be more then Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Chairman Mao, and Kim Jong-Il combined to garner this much pure unfiltered hatred. The media must be in on it too (even Fox News) because I hear nothing of death camps or secret police kidnapping those opposed the atrocities of the monster Obama. Even in Stalin run Russia, the people knew about the KGB sweeping up dissidents and the mass killings.