The War is OVER!
June 30th, 2009
It’s official, I believe. Today the war is over. Thank GOD. Thank our TROOPS. Thank our GENERALS. And thank George W. Bush, who may have made some mistakes (name me a president who didn’t make mistakes in a war), but in the end he got the job done. There is a free democracy in the Middle East, let’s hope it’s the first of many!
Iraq, we’ve given you a democracy, if you can keep it! (to paraphrase Ben Franklin)
What are you talking about Happa.
The war is over?
Tell me you are being sarcastic. Have you any ideas of what is going on in Iraq right now?
We are talking about three groups who fundamentaly hate each other (Kurds, Sunni muslims and Chi’a muslims) all cramped up and fighting for one piece of dry land.
The war is over? The involvement of America in this is finally over, and yes that IS good news.
American soldiers wont needlessy go out and get killed for a land, religion and culture that does not even come close to theirs. This war was pointless and a major mistake to begin with. There were very little ways to win a war in Iraq, if any at all. It will stay, along with Vietnam, a dark spot on american history. Shamefully.
I believe similar attitudes were prevalent regarding Japan post WW2. Look at ‘em now.
The Iraqis will work it out, hopefully. Why not give them the hope, rather than hope they fail? Oh, yeah, because GWBush gave them the freedom to choose. I’m sure if Obama had given them that freedom, you would be jumping up and down that the Iraqi forces are able to handle their own business now…
No, Obama is too busy ignoring the pleas of the freedom marchers in Iran for that. And condemning the democratic forces in Honduras.
Hapa, you have taken my point out of context.
First of all, I am not claiming any love to Obama, period.
Second of all, of course I hope that the Iraquis will all say “You know what Middle-Eastern-borther-that-I-have-hated-for-the-past-2000-years, now that the American’s have arrived in our country, toppled Saddam (Which obviously was a very good deed, do not think I say otherwise), placed a VERY fragile Pro-Occidental government whose election brought great controversy mostly with poor partcipation rates and left the country with a constant insurgence between kurds and religious fanatics, let’s take down our arms and work this out.”
Yet I have my doubts about this happening. Iraq has only been a unified country under Saddam and he held it together with some of the most horrible oppression the world ever saw. The rest of the time, great empires held rights over the land but the people living on what now is Iraq never cooperated.
Third of all, tell me how toppeling a centre-right based government with military, not people, is a democratic action?
We deffinately do not have the same view of what democracy is.
Zedom, How could you doubt that the war is over? Stephen Cobert proclaimed it not a month ago when he went to Iraq!
The ‘military’ democracy was over last time they had an election with no US involvement, IMO
There will always be extremists, but I believe the vast majority of the people in Iraq appreciate freedom, and have had enough of bloodshed and terrorism to last at least a few decades, if not a lifetime. They now have a choice. That is democracy. Don’t forget we had our own little war here between ideologies… a war over choices. But we were still a democratic republic.
Um. The war has been over. Stephen Colbert announced this like 2 weeks ago!
What people that world over want is peace and stability in their lives (throw in a little excitement for kicks). This does not necessarily mean that they want democracy. Freedom of Expression, Assembly, and Thought? Sure. I doubt that there is anybody (discounting extremists and autocrats) who wouldn’t want that.
But Secular democracy doesn’t mesh well with any social system except for a meritocracy.
With information tools such as the internet, the young generation within the Middle East can develop a vision for a society that they are comfortable with. There’s a good chance that it will look like the secular democracy of the Western World. But there’s no garantee of that. Older generations have the current status quo ingrained into their psyche. There is only so much change that they can assimilate at a time.
Any lasting change will take at least a generation. It may be the Middle Eastern version of Western Democracy, but it will be one of their own making. (Not something the US can import.)
Also I didn’t realize giving a foreign country the “freedom to choose” meant spending billions on sending our military over to that country to make them choose.
my turn to be childish….
Wootabega: stop repeating me….
There that was Cathartic
I believe the statistic is that 70% of the Iranian population is under the age of 30. If there is a chance for a shift to freedom over theocracy, now is that time.
‘Giving’ a foreign country the freedom to choose usually means taking away the government that isn’t giving them that freedom. That isn’t usually done by asking politely… Although we haven’t tried that tactic, have we? Hmmm….
I’ll go ahead and give my honest opinion. whatever happens in Iraq, as long as it stays in Iraq I don’t think the U.S. should be concerned. We have more than enough issues to deal with here.
The internet is probably the death knell to all authoritarian regimes – be they theocracies, or dictatorships. These types of “government” thrive because of a tight control over information. Something that is increasingly improbable with the internet.
Even if the internet is used to promote a certain doctrine/ philosophy, the fact that there is access/ exposure to competing doctrines/ philosophies, will allow people the freedom to make up their own minds on a subject.
Yes the conditions are ripe for Iran to shift away from a Theocracy. Let’s simply hope it doesn’t get too bloody in the process, that Iran can’t survive the process.
It’s already bloody. The blood is all in the hands of the unarmed protesters. It’s why they don’t stand a chance without the help they are begging for. And here Obama is giving another bloody sales pitch on Health Care Reform as I type this…
The USA is so big on Sovereignty. Iran is a Sovereign nation. The US needs to respect that. The best that America can do is to Report the events, Broadcast what’s happening so all can see. If this is done without pro- American rhetoric and or in concert with the rest of the “free world” change can be effected. No matter what the banner of a ruling establishment, there is a certain level of pride, ego and “honor” that cannot be sacrificed.
The Iranian will not be “shamed” into doing anything, but if it percieves that it’s reputation among it’s friends is being compromised, their reaction will be tempered (if only just a little).
Are you HIGH? No disrespect, but these guys just shut down all media, are killing protesters, have slated hospitalized protesters for execution, rigged their election, rigged the recount, blamed the murder of Neda on the protesters… and this is all in the last WEEK. Nevermind three decades of murdering women for adultery, or beating them in the streets for wearing lipstick among the hundreds of other offenses their government does without giving a RATS ASS how it’s perceived by it’s neighbors or the international community…
Come on, Kuni. Pull your head out of the sand on this one at least.
True, those dastardly things you mention happens. But iff the Iranian theocracy doesn`t care one whit what anyone thinks, why was there even a recount? The outside world may be meaningless to them, but the Iranian people still is a concern. The outside media can be a galvanizing force for the Iranian dispora and those media that makes it into Iran can do the same for those living Iran.
Credibility is of utmost importance to theocrats, whose power is based solely the faith placed in them. Remember, the reigning clerics were revolutionaries that overthrew the previous regime because they no longer had faith in it or it`s abilities and intents.
The `Western World` is of no importance to the Iranians perhaps, but Iran`s neighbours are . Currently what the Iranian government is doing is inl ine with what their neighbours think they should do. As such it appears to us that there is impunity, where the actions taken are measured.
Even North Korea, China and Russia measure their actions- regardless of how we perceive it.